Saturday, June 14, 2008

The Apocalyptic Discourse

What I am about to share is completely my opinion; my observations, my thoughts, my feelings...and completely abbreviated. I'm not presenting this as a debate, though religious topics usually spurn such things. If you want to discuss - please feel free by all means... If you have questions, I'll do my best to expound upon/explain; however, I don't consider myself a scholar.

For centuries people have been proclaiming the end of the world, with theories from the burning out of the sun to the threat of a nuclear disaster - and with exact dates even! It has always amazed me that the Bible, so well preserved, as been so greatly ignored in these matters. At one time, a large portion of the Bible was unfulfilled prophesies, proclaiming the coming and redemption of the promised Messiah. Now, we find that most of the Bible is historic with some yet unfulfilled prophesies. And yet, we ignore this fact - or simply state that it is not a fact. We look at other options, anything that circumvents the idea of a creator - regardless of how ridiculous the idea or story. It can't possibly be as ridiculous as the story of a creator and the evidence that has been found to support it. Why? Because it's prophetic.

So, where am I going with this? I'll be blunt. I've never been the "doomsday" type; I've always been labeled a "skeptic" in most all things, including "doomsday proclamations." I will say however, that I feel God has been revealing a lot of things to me through Scripture, prayer, and study. What does it come down to? "...the kingdom of God is near." - Matt 4:17, 10:7, Luke 10:9. - A message given time and time again throughout the Bible. Are we listening yet?

Ok, the apostles were saying it back in Biblical times, so how close is "near" really? Well, let's discuss. Back to prophesy - "But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." - Luke 21:28 "So you also, when you see these things happening, recognize that the kingdom of God is near. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass way until all things take place." - Luke 21:31-32.

From this, it's safe to say that the religious zealots who have proclaimed the coming of God with dates have done so without the facts - without the fulfilling of Biblical prophesy. "All things" prophesied have not yet taken place. So what's left? Well, this could be a week long discussion, but I'll try to boil it down to some of the basics.

Yeshua (Jesus) predicted the fall of Jerusalem and the fall of the Temple, the scattering of the Jews among the nations because they would not obey, and the survival of the Jews and the Church. "And among those nations you shall find no rest nor shall the sole of your foot have a resting place; but there the LORD will give you a trembling heart, failing eyes, and anguish of soul." - Deuteronomy 28:65 "And the LORD will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the LORD will drive you." - Deuteronomy 4:27 Wow, um...WWII anyone?

Never before has a people group been so hated, so mistreated, and yet still survived - and thrived! They are the "chosen people." (I do not believe in the "replacement theory.") And because they have been chosen, God continues to show His strength and power through them, fulfilling prophesies and promises He had made. You show me a people group so small and so "exterminated" who is still here - and a vital part of the economy, etc. He proclaimed a time when Israel would then again be reestablished... - Ezekiel 36: 24-28 and Jeremiah 32: 37-38 The Jews have been scattered three major times, and three times they have been supernaturally reinstated in the land that was promised them. How much even greater this third time - no one would have put money on that.

1. They fled to Egypt and returned through Moses.
2. The twelve trips fled through 722-586 BC and returned under Zerubbabel, Ezra, and Nehemiah through 538-444 BC.
3. The Jews fled again a third time in 70 AD under the Romans...

Notes on #3: Yeshua had prophesied that the huge temple would be completely destroyed, not even one stone left on another. - Matthew 24:2 That generation saw it happen just as he said when Titus demolished it in 70 AD. The Jews fled and over hundreds of years, lived in varying nations. And they have suffered greatly as prophesied...during the Holocaust (and yes, it did happen) 1/3 of the World-Wide Jewish population was exterminated! And yet, they thrive!

Update on #3: After hundreds of years and great suffering, Israel was reestablished in 1948 after the Holocaust - thanks to God who fulfills his promises and the supporting nations He uses. (Many started returning as early as 1871, but this had been minimal). When Israel was reestablished in 1948, only 650K Jews lived there. 2006 was a historical year for the Jews! It was then that Israel became home to the largest Jewish population in the world, after 1900 years! It's Jewish population is now well over 5.3 million! They have returned as prophesied - after 1900 years! "Then my people will know that I am the LORD their God, because I sent them away to exile and brought them home again. I will leave none of my people behind." - Ezekiel 39:28 Though the possibility exists that representatives from all 12 tribes have returned (only 3 tribes can be identified through lineage), obviously not all of the Jews have returned. Is it the tribes or all the people, I don't know. If people, how many are left? I don't know. To what extent of Jewishness, I don't know.

He also claimed that the world would once again become globalized in control, finances, religion, etc. We still have yet to reach the "globalization" prophesied in the Bible. The world has always seemed too large and too disconnected to ever be "globalized" in such a way. It was so far reaching - seemed like such a remarkable futuristic event in even our grandparents generations... The last few decades have really brought this closer to fruition with the expansion of the internet, television and world news, the end of the Cold War, the creation of the World Trade Organization, global terrorism, and the "industrial gold"...oil. Now, in our generation, we see the stage is quickly setting for such an event.

Side Note: Keep your eyes on Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the Iranian president, who openly declares his desire to "wipe Israel off the map", is trying to convince the world the Holocaust was a myth, and plans to hasten the return of the Islamic messiah by ushering in his vision of the apocalypse, which includes the annihilation of the Jews.

Prophesy clearly states that Israel would be reestablished before end of "the period of the Gentiles." And non-Jewish nations were still going to be in control of Israel's destiny during final judgment and suffering. The Jews "will be killed by the sword or sent away as captives to all the nations of the world. And Jerusalem will be trampled down by the Gentiles until the period of the Gentiles comes to an end." - Luke 21:24 This clearly shows that the struggle for Israel (Jerusalem) will continue until the end. Currently Israel, surrounded by Arab nations, is a target on all sides. And those who hate Israel also hate their supporters. With such a history of survival, how will Israel be "trampled down"? Won't God save them again? Well, the Bible states that such a battle will exist and because Israel can't win this last battle, Yeshua will bring the "period of the gentiles" to an end. Then the lion will lie down with the lamb...

And now the introduction of terrorism... We are seeing it now. How do conventional military forces beat unconventional terrorist? The US and Israel have the greatest military forces in the world, yet terrorism continues to evolve... Is this how Israel will be "trampled?" I think it's quite possible - With the threat of nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorist and/or Arab nations, at any moment we could see a call for worldwide jihad. Don't even get me started on oil... This is quite longer than I anticipated already.

I will say this: With the Middle East being the only location with enough oil reserves for the US demands, in addition to terrorism, the US is extremely vulnerable. Depending on how things come about abroad, I also believe the US is on the verge of another civil war, fighting among ourselves... Long story short: If ever there was a time for the Arab nations to come to power, it's now during the oil crisis while they are holding all the industrial nations' cards. I find no reference to the West or America in the end times...makes me curious of its outcome and loss of influence.

Ezekiel 38-39: These chapters prophesy about the evasion in Israel in the end times by a vast coalition of nations, all of whom are Islamic today, with the exception of Russia. Many believe the rise of Islam (especially Radical Islamic terrorism), is a foreshadowing of Ezekiel's prophesy. This isn't to say that this will happen "soon." It suggests that Israel will be at rest, which they obviously are not currently. It is possible they will ever be?

Daniel 9:26-27 talks about the group of Ten world leaders who will lead a coalition, much like that of the Roman Empire. Out of them will come one who will be the "strongman" or leader... Daniel 9:36 states, "a ruler will arise." He (the Antichrist) will enter into a seven-year treaty of protection and peace with the people of Israel...and then break his covenant, desecrating the Temple by demanding praise/worship to himself. Most believe this will take place after the rapture with a "false treaty" that will dupe Israel into being at rest. Point being - we may never see the Antichrist come to power if the rapture happens first... So, don't bet on watching for this sign. Other theories suggest that this prophesy was fulfilled when Yeshua walked the earth and died...which creates a different spin on a lot of common teachings about end-time prophesy, to include common theories on the rapture, the Antichrist's timing, and the length of the tribulation period (basically, there is no second chance after the rapture as the first theory suggests).

According to the first theory, the Great Tribulation would start after the rapture (according to most) which would last approx 7 years? (There are very different theories on this.) The first 3.5 years (or half) of the Great Tribulation is a time Israel would be at rest - Then Russia and her Islamic allies will invade Israel, fulfilling the prophesy. We can talk more on this later if anyone is interested in researching/discussing. However, they would probably attack Israel for 4 reasons:

1. Gain territory (Ezekiel 38:8)
2. Gain wealth (Ezekiel 38:12)
3. Destroy people of Israel (Ezekiel 38:11 and 16)
4. Challenge Antichrist who is allies with Israel according to the treaty (Ezekiel 38:14-16)

Anyway, my message: I think we are definitely living in the last days... I think we still have the 7(?) years of Great Tribulation ahead...but I think the stage it pretty well set for that to begin very soon - could be a year, could be a few decades...who knows? I do think there is a great possibility it will be in our lifetimes. Regardless of your end time theories, one thing does appear to be clear - "the kingdom of God is near."

"Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: 'May they prosper who love you. Peace be within your walls, prosperity withing your palaces.' For the sake of my brethren and companions, I will now say, 'Peace be within you,' Because of the house of the LORD our God, I will seek your good." - Psalm 122:6-9

Note: I am by no means a scholar - please study on your own and don't take my thoughts/noted theories as fact. I just wanted to bring this to light and hopefully invoke some discussion and/or stirring up for the scriptures, meditation, and repentance.

7 comments:

~meredith~ said...

Admittedly, I am not nearly as well-read, Biblically, as I could/should be, but I, too, have often wondered about the Jews and Israel and the apparent and constant struggle (to put it mildly) that they have faced for years upon years.

And, for some reason, I feel like the antichrist is around, and I am almost compulsively wary of anyone who appears too good to be true...promising peace and whatnot. Although, I do have to remind myself that people have been thinking they were in the 'end times' for a very long time.

I do agree that 'globalization' seems very plausible thanks to the internet and TV...I've kind of always thought that.

I enjoyed this post-very thought provoking! :)

And, maybe I will list my dirt. lol. I sure don't know what else to do with it!

Kris the Girl said...

You amaze me constantly.

cls said...

Yeah, well, they'll be in Miramar, CA tomorrow...I'm sure the plane will break again...I mean, that IS what planes tend to do when you're "stuck" on the freakin' coast of northern Calif!!!! No, I'm not bitter :)

Anonymous said...

Hey, this is good. A few things jumped out at me as unique that I hope you'll comment on:

1. You say that all 12 tribes have returned. Since Jews today are identified as Judah, Benjamin, or Levi and a lot of people say the rest of the "lost" tribes are unidentifiable, who do you think the other tribes are today?

2. You mention that the Antichrist will enter into a seven-year treaty with Israel specifically. I've heard this before. From where are you drawing this conclusion? From Daniel 9:27's "He will confirm a covenant with many..."?

3. You mention "the 4 years of the Great Tribulation." Based on Daniel 9:27 (expounded on in Matthew 24), a lot folks think it'll be 7 years. Why do you say 4?

This is a great and thoughtful discussion! Hope the mountains are treating you well!

amber said...

Daniel,

Good questions: I'd do my best - You're probably more versed on most of this than I am, so I would be very interested in your thoughts as well...

1. I agree with you that only 3 can be ID'd through lineage, currently. I guess the easiest way to explain my initial thoughts are "probability." I think the other 9 tribes were dispersed amongst the gentiles whom they lived amongst - I don't think they all died without lineage; it was just mixed beyond recognition/records. As small as the percentage may be, I think the probability is great that family lines (however microscopic) are with many who are among the Israel nation - with as many who have returned at this point in time.

I have also heard people claim the missing tribes, scattered among the people of the North, have been recovered by God, not by genetic tracking, but by faith in a preached Gospel - more or less Christian denominations. I don't really see this point though.

Seeing that my theory definitely has room for error, I'll go back and clarify.

2. Regarding my thoughts on the 7 year treaty: Yes, Daniel 9:27. This theory is based on the Ezekiel 4:5 "a day for a year" prophetic rule.

I have also been reading a lot about the belief that this is not an "end time" prophesy and in fact was fulfilled when Yeshua came the first time, which is very interesting... (see below info)

Proposed total 70-week block given by Gabriel in verses 25 & 27:
Block 1: 7 Weeks -(49 years)- Starts in 457 BC

Block 2: 62 Weeks -(434 years)- Starts in 408 BC

Block 3: 1 week -(7 years)- Starts in 27 AD

3 ½ Years + 3 ½ Years = 7 years (one week)

o This block starts in 27 AD. What happened in this year? Christ was baptized, anointed, and started His public ministry.
o The "midst of the week" started in 31 AD (3 ½ years later). What happened in this year? Christ was killed on the cross.(New Covenant confirmed.)
o This block ends in 34 AD. What happened in this year? Stephen, the last disciple to the Jews, was stoned by the Sanhedrin and the Gospel went out to the Gentiles.

This theory advocates that fact there there will be a tribulation, but not 7 years. It also advocates that the Antichrist and treaty will not be as aforementioned... Have you read or studied on any of this? This is kind of where my study is going currently - to see this theory out.

3. I'm not sure why I put "4?" Everything in my notes says 7... I think I was subconsciously putting it regarding something else I was reading concurrently... I am also of the belief it's 7 years - referring to Daniels' "seventy weeks of years." I obviously can't proofread, follow my notes, or multi-task! (lol)

Let me know your thoughts - I'm very interested!

cls said...

Lol, Aaron's brother, Jake, is very "little." I belivee he just turned 23. I told Aaron about your comment and his reply was, "Amber, you have no idea..." LoL. ;)

Anonymous said...

Amber,

1. I agree that the identity of lost tribes has plenty of room for speculation. In fact, there have been a lot of theories about them leading to lots of different movements.

For my part, I agree that the Bible represents them as being assimilated among the nations, becoming Gentile in appearance. But the Bible seems to make it pretty clear that the Lord will regather them and reunite them with Judah - the southern tribes that retained their identities as Jews. Ezekiel 37 is the most dramatic of these passages along with Hosea 1:11 and others; Isa. 49:6 assigns this task to Jesus, in whatever form it will take. This is a prophecy that hasn't yet taken place, so I think we can be confident it will, as you've said.

Now how will happen? While I think it's possible that there are Israelites from the exiled northern kingdom among modern day Jews, I think the regathering of those tribes is probably intended to be a much more dramatic event rather than a few people here and there. There's a lot more that could be said, but to me it seems likely to be fulfilled like this: Either God will make it possible to determine Israelite lineage and make it evident he's bringing them back OR in some unexplained way, Jesus' good news going to the Gentiles is actually a process of regathering Israel and those associated with him. James 1:1 is interesting in this light. Right now, I see this last answer as most likely - a regathering that uses the spiritual salvation of Jesus to achieve the secondary purpose of bringing lost Israel home within that group.

2. I tend to agree with the 'seven' in Dan. 9:27 referring to a 7-year period because of the blocks of time you described.

I've never seen the seven years laid over Jesus' ministry. That's interesting, though without learning more about it, I'm not seeing right off how everything would line up... for example, Who confirmed a covenant with many in 27AD? Or how does Jesus' crucifixion at the 3.5 yr mark equate to the "abomination that causes desolation"?

It does make sense to me that the final "seven" describes a tribulation period. In Jesus' description, this abomination of desolation does land in a time of tribulation (Matt 24:15-24) and both 2 Thess. 2:3 and Daniel seem to ascribe this abomination to the antichrist.

Will the trouble last all seven years? Matt 24:22 might permit for it to be shorter, though Daniel 12:11-12 seems to say that it's prescribed for seven years.

On a slightly different issue, while I think it's possible that the antichrist's "covenant with many" refers to Israel, it seems like it could be a covenant with anyone - not necessarily Israel. I'm not sure what evidence people cite to show it is Israel.

3. Haha. Yeah, sometimes a simple typo can mess up some pretty significant meaning. :)

Those are my thoughts. :) This is fascinating stuff to examine.